I will go out on a limb and say that FDR was the best president in US history and GWB is the worst.
Anyone want to dispute that?
8 comments:
Anonymous
said...
I won't dispute it. I have noticed a few instances, all quite recently, of right-wing commenters spreading the idea that FDR was a failure, because his policies needlessly extended the Great Depression much longer than it would have lasted under some other set of policies (or perhaps if nothing was done?).
Do you know of (though not necessarily agree with) any reasoned, historical basis for this claim? Or is it just that as the worst presidency ever continues, they have reached further and further to change the focus of discussion, and having pretty well flogged Clinton, then moved on to Carter, now that has become stale and they have set their sights on FDR?
Given up on A. Johnson as worst ever? I'm still going to have to go with Jimmy Buchanan on that question. Because he, you know, was a bachelor, natch.
For best ever, FDR surely gets paired with Abraham Lincoln and TJ (the latter more for sentimental feelings than anything else) for that honor - I can go with any of them, mood depending.
As long as we're playing - JFK always gets a boost in the public "greatest presidents" polls. What claim does he have to this status? I'd argue very little beyond his management of the Cuban Missile Crisis and a certain conscience-searing event that I'm just forgetting.
I am reading a book right now that just made a comparison between W and FDR. It is called The End of Poverty by Jeffrey Sachs.
"The great allied leaders of the fight against fascism in WWII understood that success in the war effort also required success in winning the confidence and trust of the world. FDR lead the US into WWII on the basis of defending 4 freedoms, not just the freedom from fear, but also the freedom of speech and belief and, crucially, the freedom from want...The Marshall Plan proved the U.S. commitment to freedom from want...Over time, that effort has evaporated; U.S. aid fell from more than 2% of GNP during the heyday of the Marshall Plan to less than 0.2% of the GNP today."
Anyway, there are lots more interesting comparisons in the book, but I thought the quote was getting long already. You all probably already knew this, but the difference between a philosophy of diplomacy and a philosophy of aggression seem to be stark. How did Americans vote for this guy twice (sort of)?
Hello fellow bloggers, I realy wanted to post a comment and here it is: Did you know that there is more chickens than people on earth? Cool fact huh? I happen to be this bloggers daughter and i got really bored of watching Wheel of Fortune, so this is what im gonna do instead. I can not name all of the presidents but if i could i would.
would it be more appropriate for me to start a "is another New Deal possible" thread over at the Pship, or can I just get a show of hands in this Comments section. - p
I think the "FDR was a failure" rap stems mostly from political ideology, economic ideology and the ability to fool the American people.
I think part of it is that a lot of people sold the notion that FDR's economic policies saved us from the Great Depression. They did no such thing. The Depression didn't really end until the end of WWII when we the Western world was forced to buy our goods. Ah, the value of empire. So people who "learned" that FDR ended the Great Depression are easily disillusioned.
Of course, they argue that lowering taxes, etc. would have ended everything a lot faster. Not sure about the historical accuracy of this claim. My understanding is that only Germany did okay during the 30s and that through very centralized control and refusal to repay the WWI debt. My understanding, and Germany experts in the crowd contradict me here, is the Hitler could spend freely because he never had any intention of repaying anyone outside of Germany and using the spoils of war to repay those inside Germany. Plus seizing the assets of a portion of your people helps boost an economy. The rest of the world was in the shitter.
As far as it goes though, the same subset of people who call for tax cuts at all costs, have absolutely no problem pointing to a post war imperial US or a prepping for war Germany as economic models to emulate. Yes we owe China $5 trillion. If it comes to it...are they really going to try to collect?
But then, there is the argument that what FDR did didn't really end the Depression, so I guess it is possible to argue that he could have, if he had done the right things. FDR took a :let's see what works" approach and basically let everyone in his administration have millions of dollars to do whatever they thought might help people. There was a lot of waste. A lot of stupid things were tried. People balked at government interference. A lot of people thought that the "elimination" of one-third of farm stocks was/is dumb.
But FDR basically came in and said that the one thing that people couldn't give up on was hope. Basically, the gov't had to do everything it could, so that the government could say that it was doing everything it could. He made people feel better and, at the time, this was more important than not wasting a few million dollars.
btw, this is why I think FDR was the greatest president. He seemed to understand that government's role can be the helping hand in troubled times. That just by saying that you care, you can help. Not everything he did worked. Maybe "packing" the court wasn't the best idea and maybe he shouldn't have tried to purge the Dem party of conservatives (joking), but he seemed to have the right instincts.
Wobs: I forgot about Andy. Betraying the Civil War v. destroying the economy, constitution, and American presitge. Hmmm.
8 comments:
I won't dispute it. I have noticed a few instances, all quite recently, of right-wing commenters spreading the idea that FDR was a failure, because his policies needlessly extended the Great Depression much longer than it would have lasted under some other set of policies (or perhaps if nothing was done?).
Do you know of (though not necessarily agree with) any reasoned, historical basis for this claim? Or is it just that as the worst presidency ever continues, they have reached further and further to change the focus of discussion, and having pretty well flogged Clinton, then moved on to Carter, now that has become stale and they have set their sights on FDR?
Given up on A. Johnson as worst ever? I'm still going to have to go with Jimmy Buchanan on that question. Because he, you know, was a bachelor, natch.
For best ever, FDR surely gets paired with Abraham Lincoln and TJ (the latter more for sentimental feelings than anything else) for that honor - I can go with any of them, mood depending.
As long as we're playing - JFK always gets a boost in the public "greatest presidents" polls. What claim does he have to this status? I'd argue very little beyond his management of the Cuban Missile Crisis and a certain conscience-searing event that I'm just forgetting.
I am reading a book right now that just made a comparison between W and FDR. It is called The End of Poverty by Jeffrey Sachs.
"The great allied leaders of the fight against fascism in WWII understood that success in the war effort also required success in winning the confidence and trust of the world. FDR lead the US into WWII on the basis of defending 4 freedoms, not just the freedom from fear, but also the freedom of speech and belief and, crucially, the freedom from want...The Marshall Plan proved the U.S. commitment to freedom from want...Over time, that effort has evaporated; U.S. aid fell from more than 2% of GNP during the heyday of the Marshall Plan to less than 0.2% of the GNP today."
Anyway, there are lots more interesting comparisons in the book, but I thought the quote was getting long already. You all probably already knew this, but the difference between a philosophy of diplomacy and a philosophy of aggression seem to be stark. How did Americans vote for this guy twice (sort of)?
G
Hello fellow bloggers, I realy wanted to post a comment and here it is: Did you know that there is more chickens than people on earth? Cool fact huh? I happen to be this bloggers daughter and i got really bored of watching Wheel of Fortune, so this is what im gonna do instead. I can not name all of the presidents but if i could i would.
Happy Prez Day! ABC
good god. fdr is the champ, obviously.
would it be more appropriate for me to start a "is another New Deal possible" thread over at the Pship, or can I just get a show of hands in this Comments section. - p
Washington, Washington, twelve stories high made of radiation.
But what about Andrew "Trail of Tears" Jackson?
Thomas Jefferson
Chad,
I think the "FDR was a failure" rap stems mostly from political ideology, economic ideology and the ability to fool the American people.
I think part of it is that a lot of people sold the notion that FDR's economic policies saved us from the Great Depression. They did no such thing. The Depression didn't really end until the end of WWII when we the Western world was forced to buy our goods. Ah, the value of empire. So people who "learned" that FDR ended the Great Depression are easily disillusioned.
Of course, they argue that lowering taxes, etc. would have ended everything a lot faster. Not sure about the historical accuracy of this claim. My understanding is that only Germany did okay during the 30s and that through very centralized control and refusal to repay the WWI debt. My understanding, and Germany experts in the crowd contradict me here, is the Hitler could spend freely because he never had any intention of repaying anyone outside of Germany and using the spoils of war to repay those inside Germany. Plus seizing the assets of a portion of your people helps boost an economy. The rest of the world was in the shitter.
As far as it goes though, the same subset of people who call for tax cuts at all costs, have absolutely no problem pointing to a post war imperial US or a prepping for war Germany as economic models to emulate. Yes we owe China $5 trillion. If it comes to it...are they really going to try to collect?
But then, there is the argument that what FDR did didn't really end the Depression, so I guess it is possible to argue that he could have, if he had done the right things. FDR took a :let's see what works" approach and basically let everyone in his administration have millions of dollars to do whatever they thought might help people. There was a lot of waste. A lot of stupid things were tried. People balked at government interference. A lot of people thought that the "elimination" of one-third of farm stocks was/is dumb.
But FDR basically came in and said that the one thing that people couldn't give up on was hope. Basically, the gov't had to do everything it could, so that the government could say that it was doing everything it could. He made people feel better and, at the time, this was more important than not wasting a few million dollars.
btw, this is why I think FDR was the greatest president. He seemed to understand that government's role can be the helping hand in troubled times. That just by saying that you care, you can help. Not everything he did worked. Maybe "packing" the court wasn't the best idea and maybe he shouldn't have tried to purge the Dem party of conservatives (joking), but he seemed to have the right instincts.
Wobs: I forgot about Andy. Betraying the Civil War v. destroying the economy, constitution, and American presitge. Hmmm.
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